Infighting among raw foodists

On Jun 19, 2006, at 6:42 PM, John Fielder wrote:

Hi Rhio,

It is good to see you continuing with your good work. Especially I would wish to commend you for you on-line Radio programmes.

Personally, I would wish to express my dismay that there is so much in-fighting going on between the different advocates of a natural lifestyle. And yes, we do have our differences, and that to me is all well and good, for we are all different people, with different experiences. Yet when it is boiled down I feel it would be much healthier (pun intended) if we were to focus on our areas of agreement, instead of those of dis-agreement. I like the quotation of the Persian philosopher Zoroaster (Zarathustra), who said,"Lets us not attack the bad, let us only improve the good". We are all doing something "bad" according to one or the other schools of thought, in the sphere of natural living.

And yet it could well be said that I am not living up to my own philosophy. Oh me, oh my!!!!

So be it.

In friendship,

John

John L. Fielder,
Osteopath & Lifestyle Consultant
Academy of Natural Living
www.iig.com.au/anl

Hello John,

Nice to hear from you.

Thank you for the kind words on my show. I appreciate it. The health shows on our station will soon be available for podcasting. We are working on it now. We were going to archive the shows, but decided to move on to the latest innovation.

Infighting in what sense do you mean? Please explain further. What have you heard about infighting among our American raw foodists? (smile)

With blessings and peace,

Rhio

On Jun 20, 2006, at 10:04 PM, John Fielder wrote:

Hi Rhio,

I trust you will have received my latest e-mail directed to the radio station site and am most interested in your latest moves re podcasting etc.

Re in-fighting. I was referring to a number of rawfood sites which I and others, have been in contact with who have not been pleased because I will not toe the vegan line. I have no problem with those who feel they are successful in applying veganism in their lives. Where I do take issue is the non-acknowledgement that for some it may well not be possible to live as a vegan long term.That in fact their experience is in-valid, that the only reason they are not being successful is due to their not applying it correctly.

Although I am a 100% raw fooder, I am not a vegan. I was for many years.

From my own experience, and that of a number of my clients, whom I would categorically state had applied themselves religiously to veganism, and lived exemplary lifestyles, I no longer am. On further investigation I found that there were literally hundreds of people around the world with similar experiences. Many of these people were listed in M2M, of which I am sure you are familiar.

In friendship,

John

Dear John,

I also have had some run ins with vegans, especially some Fruitarians and Natural Hygienists (those here in the US). For example, I lost an endorsement for my book from John Robbins (I was dealing with his representative) because I would not take honey, as an ingredient in some of the recipes, out of my book. The same representative was also representing the Garden Burger company which uses cheese in some of their burger products.

On the subject of honey products, I believe that it is very, very important to keep the beekeepers in business because conventional agricultural practices destroy the bees and other beneficial insects. And without bees more than half of our crops would not get pollinated so that they could produce our food. Vegans object to the practices of some beekeepers who take the honey and feed the bees inferior corn syrup or sugar syrup or beekeepers who kill their bees in Winter, etc. I also object to these practices, but not all beekeepers do this, just like not all farmers create a toxic field with chemicals and pesticides.

In addition, I do not believe that there are any true vegans because most of the products in regular everyday usage unfortunately contain some animal byproducts in them, such as scotch tape, glue, film, videos, computers, plastics, cosmetics, vitamin capsules, etc., etc. Until we take out the animal components of so many products in daily usage, we cannot call ourselves vegan. Also, I object to the intractable and militant posture of some vegans. Dietary reform is not something to be forced upon people, but hopefully a case can be made for it in persuasive, reasonable and friendly terms. I believe that each raw food enthusiast needs to decide for themselves what to include in their diet, and while in general I do not recommend meat or dairy products, I do believe, as you do, that we should take the judgement out of the equation. We are all individual with individual needs, and that is something to be found out, and decided, by each individual person.

I have also had some "words" with prominent Fruitarians and Natural Hygienists because they tend to hide the failures of their systems under the rug. Then when somebody, like me, sweeps it out from under the rug, they are not too pleased. And they too say that if people are failing on their program it is because they are not applying it correctly, which tends to repudiate or invalidate individual experience by placing the failure on the person and not the supposedly 'fail-safe' system. Perhaps we are referring to the same websites or people, I do not know. Please refer to my last two hotlines on my website where I am talking about the Fruitarian and Dr. Douglas Graham's 80/10/10 version of the Fruitarian Diet. Part 1 & 2 - Part 3 will be out in July.

I'm not familiar with M2M, what is it?

With blessings and peace,

Rhio

On Jun 25, 2006, at 5:25 PM, John Fielder wrote:

Hi Rhio,

Many thanks for your most understanding reply. It appears that our experiences have been somewhat similar which it is sad to admit. Nevertheless I am pleased that you have continued with your good work in spite of it, and commend you for it. I agree that it is the example that we set that is most important.

Your comments on honey and veganism in general, and especially with regards to our being individuals, I find very relevant and empathise with.

M2M, was a group which was started consisting of people who had problems with long standing veganism (mostly ex hygienists) and who had quietly dropped out due to the criticism and non-acceptance of their problems by the vociferous few. It ran for a number of years on the internet, and eventually had a huge following.There was a newsletter which ran to many, many pages. I will check and see if some of this material is archived. The group may still be even going. Will check and let you know what I find.

In friendship,

John

Dear John,

May I post our email letter exchange on my website's Real Letters section under Criticisms, Disagreements and Controversies? And if there is still information on M2M, perhaps I could add that link or info to it. My only purpose is for disclosure and transparency.

Let me know.

Thank you.

Rhio

PS I don't know if you had this experience too, but in my email conversations with some Fruitarians, they began disparaging me personally and could never stick to the subject at hand. That is when I decided that it would be fruitless (no pun intended) to pursue it further with them and I proceeded with my hotline series and also a series of radio shows with people who have had trouble on the Fruitarian and/or 80/10/10 version of the Fruitarian diet. There are also people who seem to be successfully executing those diets and I've included those as well.

June 26, 2006 5:35:11 PM EDT

Hi Rhio,

You are very welcome to post any correspondence of ours that you feel appropriate.

Re M2M. It was a newsletter so I have now discovered, having found it in my files, which was originally published by Ward Nicholson upholding the ideas of Natural Hygiene. In due course, and experience, he handed it over to Bob Avery in 1997, and at the same time relinquishing his connection with Natural Hygiene. He later published a series of articles on Paleo diet vs vegetarianism, which I have read and found most interesting, insightful, and well researched and indexed. These articles are to be found, so I believe, on the website, Beyond Vegetarianism. At some stage or other I believe Chet Day became involved too.

Bob Avery is currently involved with rawlife.com so I believe and Chet day has his own website.

In friendship,

John

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